Curse

Glass Of Water · Oct 21, 2010, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Look, I understand the importance of not having low health in PvP...but where did this magic number 600 come from? I have done numerous full RA runs on my mesmer with 530 HP (590 with high health set). I can understand only running minor runes as to not reduce health to 455...but WHY 600?

I've seen people sacrificing weapon mods just to jack up their health as high as possible every time they PvP. Is it really worth dropping your wand and offhand for a sword and shield with max HP mods? My motto is "If it works, use it!". So many elitist monks in RA will ask me to ping my health, then when they see 530, they drop. Seriously, stop making such a big deal over 600 health. I believe I've heard that alot of spikes will be around 600 damage, or a bit lower...but come on...if you take all that damage without being healed or protted once, you're gonna have about 10 or 20 health left if you have all health modifiers on, which means you're pretty much dead anyway.

Karate Jesus · Oct 21, 2010, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Simple question, simple answer.

Most spikes are at or around 600 hp. If you have less, you die.

And it's not much of a sacrifice if you know how to rune correctly. Also, forcing a monk to heal you more just because you're 70hp shy of most players is a bit of an annoyance. I'm sure sins love you, though.

Glass Of Water · Oct 21, 2010, 05:08 AM // 05:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Simple question, simple answer.

Most spikes are at or around 600 hp. If you have less, you die.

And it's not much of a sacrifice if you know how to rune correctly. Also, forcing a monk to heal you more just because you're 70hp shy of most players is a bit of an annoyance. I'm sure sins love you, though.

So...it's worth sacrificing a 20/20 or 40/40 set for?

I've never lived without those, it seems scary.

*lemming* · Oct 21, 2010, 05:20 AM // 05:20

You want to be in a shield + weapon set almost all of the time. 13 armor is what, ~25% damage reduction? That's enormous.

With that being said, 560 is the magic number in shield set without vitae runes.

Karate Jesus · Oct 21, 2010, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

With that being said, 560 is the magic number in shield set without vitae runes.

^ this. You should have several sets

Glass Of Water · Oct 21, 2010, 05:42 AM // 05:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

13 armor is what, ~25% damage reduction? That's enormous.

Shields are 16 if you meet the req, and 8 if you don't. If you want to go into r7 and r6 shields...even if you meet those reqs, neither of them have 13 armor.

Where did you get 13 armor from? O_o

Karate Jesus · Oct 21, 2010, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass Of Water

Shields are 16 if you meet the req, and 8 if you don't. If you want to go into r7 and r6 shields...even if you meet those reqs, neither of them have 13 armor.

Where did you get 13 armor from? O_o

I'm assuming from the 8ar on the shield and a +5ar spear, since that's common and 13 ar.

But that's just a guess.

I Get Bored Eazily · Oct 21, 2010, 06:20 AM // 06:20

wow, alt tabbing for ever means horribly late response to an already answered question. gg me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

I'm assuming from the 8ar on the shield and a +5ar spear, since that's common and 13 ar.

^that

Divine Ashes · Oct 21, 2010, 07:21 AM // 07:21

I think if you actually use a Strength PvP shield, you get 9ar, not 8, without meeting the requirement. Unless they fixed it that is

Faer · Oct 21, 2010, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass Of Water

So...it's worth sacrificing a 20/20 or 40/40 set for?

I've never lived without those, it seems scary.

4 weapon sets.
Swappable at any time you aren't casting or attacking.

Use them.

Maver1ck87 · Oct 21, 2010, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Really, this is 1 of 2 things.... either ur saying is it REALLY worth sacrificing less points in dom, less energy or faster casting 100% of the time for having a bit more health....

Answer = yes

OR.....

Your more clever than that and are asking is health really the most important thing.... in most metas.... NO, armour is more important. spec armour insigs rather than survivors.... but meh

basically, give ur monks a break, run high health OR high armour, no major runes, and bringing a shield set is not enough u have to USE IT!!!!!

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 21, 2010, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Hey guise.. which RA spike deals 600 dmg? I'd like to run that on next quest day.

Luminarus · Oct 21, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Most sin chains do approx 400 damage with deepwound. Add in a fire ele hitting the same target with rodgorts and you got approx another 100. Thats 600 damage.

1 Weapon set - Spear with +5 armor, and Shield with +10 vs _____ inscripts. Try to swap the shields so that your meeting whatever's the biggest damage hitting you, usually eles or warriors.

2nd Weapon set - 40/40 set for important spells you want to recharge fast

3rd Weapon Set - +42 energy set for incase your in a situation where your drained, and absolutely have to cast

4th Weapon Set - depends on your build. If you have another casting line, a 40/40 set for this so that you can swap to it to cast. Otherwise I run a 2nd defensive set with either a different +10 mod so I can swap easier, or a +30 hp spear and shield here. That way I can have the + armor until i need the extra 30 hp, and then swap. Has saved my life sometimes from degen spells.

Swapping makes you better. However, with certain skills there isnt much benefit to swapping (eg wastrels worry. 1/4 cast, 1 sec recharge. No real benefit from 40/40, your better off staying in shield set)

Errant Venture · Oct 21, 2010, 02:57 PM // 14:57

As lemming said, 560 is the right number with a proper setup. Nowadays Armor is the name of the game though, so it's not uncommon to see people sacrifice health for more armor. Survivor insignias just aren't the norm anymore, armor stacking is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

Hey guise.. which RA spike deals 600 dmg? I'd like to run that on next quest day.

Pretty sure we're discussing forms of PvP that depend on player skill not luck-of-the-draw team setups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Most sin chains do approx 400 damage with deepwound. Add in a fire ele hitting the same target with rodgorts and you got approx another 100. Thats 600 damage.

1 Weapon set - Spear with +5 armor, and Shield with +10 vs _____ inscripts. Try to swap the shields so that your meeting whatever's the biggest damage hitting you, usually eles or warriors.

2nd Weapon set - 40/40 set for important spells you want to recharge fast

3rd Weapon Set - +42 energy set for incase your in a situation where your drained, and absolutely have to cast

4th Weapon Set - depends on your build. If you have another casting line, a 40/40 set for this so that you can swap to it to cast. Otherwise I run a 2nd defensive set with either a different +10 mod so I can swap easier, or a +30 hp spear and shield here. That way I can have the + armor until i need the extra 30 hp, and then swap. Has saved my life sometimes from degen spells.

Swapping makes you better. However, with certain skills there isnt much benefit to swapping (eg wastrels worry. 1/4 cast, 1 sec recharge. No real benefit from 40/40, your better off staying in shield set)

I like to keep armor +7 vs phys/ele spears in inventory as well, in case we play trip melee or some bizarre caster spike. They're not usually necessary but every bit of armor can help.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 21, 2010, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant Venture

Pretty sure we're discussing forms of PvP that depend on player skill not luck-of-the-draw team setups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass Of Water

Look, I understand the importance of not having low health in PvP...but where did this magic number 600 come from? I have done numerous full RA runs on my mesmer with 530 HP (590 with high health set). I can understand only running minor runes as to not reduce health to 455...but WHY 600?

I've seen people sacrificing weapon mods just to jack up their health as high as possible every time they PvP. Is it really worth dropping your wand and offhand for a sword and shield with max HP mods? My motto is "If it works, use it!". So many elitist monks in RA will ask me to ping my health, then when they see 530, they drop. Seriously, stop making such a big deal over 600 health. I believe I've heard that alot of spikes will be around 600 damage, or a bit lower...but come on...if you take all that damage without being healed or protted once, you're gonna have about 10 or 20 health left if you have all health modifiers on, which means you're pretty much dead anyway.

Admittedly I'm pretty terrible at this forum chat seeing as half my posts get deleted, but I was under the assumption that the thread's topic was defined as per the OP's post.

urania · Oct 21, 2010, 05:35 PM // 17:35

hey, i run a rtl ele spike in RA for lolz lately...it killz. yay for cracked armor and glyph of ele power!

deluxe · Oct 21, 2010, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glass Of Water

So many elitist monks in RA will ask me to ping my health, then when they see 530, they drop.

Then don't ping your 530 hp, but your 590!
I ragequit on casters that don't use their shield-set either.
Sit in your shield-set all the time, only swap to your 40/40 when you cast.

It makes your monk happy, and his job easier.
If your monk sees you load in with your shield-set, he's probably not even going to ask for your health.

urania · Oct 21, 2010, 11:01 PM // 23:01

trust me, we can tell when squishes have around 500 hp only.

Sagius Truthbarron · Oct 24, 2010, 02:55 AM // 02:55

The first reply is right, its about spike damage. Decent spikes should aim for over 600. Really, I don't think it matters. Everything is variable. In my day (2006ish), they had the 600 hp rule as well. I never payed attention to that, and I would die as often or less than anyone else on my teams. In serious PvP, you only take a superior rune if there's a very particular stipulation to a skill that you need (rare). Its not worth the extra -35 hp, in the opinions of my old mentors.

I used to pick armor that looked like the old +health armor, so veterans would think twice about spiking. I guess that doesn't apply anymore, since I don't think many of the old players still play. But there are things you can do to make people think twice about spiking you; your movements and so forth. Depends on the type of spike and other factors. You should worry more about the guy who is going to do something innovative and different if you're not farming HA; because the cookie cutting pugs can be beaten with skill rather than equipment.

Still, such generalities often rather ignorant, and sometimes "superstitious". They just go with what their teacher taught them, taught by his teacher, all the way back to when the game came out. Then again, I don't know. This game always ran a fine line between doing something right and doing it wrong.

Edit: Oh, in RA? It is pretty easy to tell who is the squishy with only 4 people. I can see why a monk would complain that a mesmer has low health, because bad mesmers drop like flies. I would sometimes run with low health on a mesmer in RA, but I would make sure to back it up with defensiveness skills and positioning. Really, they shouldn't judge you just on your health. Its just another example of the elitism that has persisted in this game since its beginning.

Killed u man · Oct 24, 2010, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

The first reply is right, its about spike damage. Decent spikes should aim for over 600.

Not really. Everything prior to factions/NF was supway. The biggest, cleanest spikes only got introduced with Nightfall. Before that, you had some bspike, airspike and FoC, but most of those spikes had a damage number great enough for your 50/70 hp loss not to matter. (You either rupted them and not die, or not rupt them and die)

In the early days, almost every frontliner ran sup runes (mainly due to sup absorption tough), and most midline ran major or sup rune, solely cuz there wasn't that redicilously much spike damage back then. (Evisc spiked too slow, the +1/2 attribute really outweights the 5% more chance of dying every 15 seconds orso)

In RA, I usually run a major, including on healer, and a sup depending on how much defence my bar has. In HA, major atleast, sometimes a sup depending on the build.

In GvG: minor when the meta is spike, major/sup when it's pressure like trip melee or smth else.